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Setting Idea for the Next Assassin's Creed Game: The Lancastrian Phase of the Hundred Years' War

Setting Idea for the Next Assassin's Creed Game: The Lancastrian Phase of the Hundred Years' War

The Kingdom of France - 1428
The Lancastrian Phase was the final years of the Hundred Years' War, lasting from 1415 until 1453. The conclusion of the conflict saw all of England's French holdings (save for Calais) reclaimed by the French monarch, Charles VII, and the Duchy of Burgundy brought back into the fold. The Lancastrian Phase included notable figures from Anglo-French history, including Jeanne d'Arc, Charles VII, Philip the Good, John Duke of Bedford, the child king Henry VI of England (also known as Henry II of France following his coronation in Paris in 1430), and so many others. Such a tumultuous time in France's history would be a perfect setting for the next Assassin's Creed game.

Potential Lore

The Prologue and the Battle of Agincourt
Following the burning of Jacques de Molay in 1314, the last surviving members of the French Sect of the Templar Order either fled to join their brothers in England and Burgundy, or chose to assimilate into the French aristocracy under new names. For over a century, the French Brotherhood of the Assassins enjoyed a certain peace in France as the Templars yearned to bring their rule and influence back to the French mainland. The English would remain largely unsuccessful throughout the first and second phases of the Hundred Years' War until 1415, when an English army under King Henry V sailed toward the walls of Harfleur in Normandy. Following the Fall of Harfleur, Henry's army pushed for Calais and marched through the countryside until they ran into a French army near Agincourt.
The French army was led by several of France's nobles and the best-skilled members of the French Assassins, including a descendant of the Master Assassin Thomas de Carniellon, Philippe de Carniellon. The Battle of Agincourt began when the French cavalry (with much of the Assassins present among the ranks) charged toward the English host. However, many died as the English longbow men loosed their volleys of arrows, leaving many trapped in the muddy field. Only a few surviving Assassins, including Philippe, reached the English army and began the fighting.
Once the rest of the French infantry arrived to reinforce the Assassins, it seemed that the English would loose, until a Piece of Eden was unleashed upon the French army, causing hundreds of deaths. The Grand Master of the English Templars, John of Bedford used an Apple of Eden from London to cripple the minds of the French soldiers, forcing them to fight amongst themselves or simply killing them in an agonizing instant.
By the end of the day, the French army was decimated, and many nobles and Assassins were left dead on the fields of Agincourt. Philippe managed to survive, however, and returned to Paris to alert the Brotherhood of the decisive defeat. Henry V decided to return with his army back to England, but the damage had been done against the French Kingdom. By 1418, both Rouen and Paris were under siege.
The Siege of Paris and the Return of the Templars
Most of the commanders present at the Siege of Paris were members of the Burgundian Templars (save for Duke John of Burgundy), and they opted for a full assault on the French defenses. On the night of the 30th of May, 1418, the battle began with a volley of artillery fire. The French fortifications fell, as the Burgundian cavalry and infantry headed for the breached areas of the French defense. The last remaining Assassins, including Philippe, would join the defenders, but not until Philippe rushed to his home to save his wife and his eight-year-old son, Gabriel from Burgundian thugs.
After a brief fight, the thugs were killed, and Philippe escorted his family toward the nearest gate not under attack by the Burgundians. However, he was forced to send them away with his brother, Louis de Carniellon. Philippe remained with the French defenders until he was killed by a Templar captain right in the view of both his wife and son. Together with the Assassins and the French Crown Prince, Philippe's family escaped the city and headed straight for Chinon.
The Templars had failed in capturing the Crown Prince, but finally had the Parisian Temple and the French King under their control.
The French Humiliation
In 1419, the French Crown Prince, Charles VII met up with Duke John the Fearless of Burgundy to potentially end the Burgundian-Armagnac conflict which had plagued the French aristocracy and the kingdom as a whole.
However, the diplomatic venture would end horrifically when Templar agents disguised as French soldiers butchered the Burgundian Duke. This had sent shockwaves throughout France, and even King Charles VI and Queen Isabeau were convinced that their son had instigated the murder. As a result, Charles VII lost his rights to the French crown, and Henry V of England became the new heir.
Suddenly, both monarchs would die in 1422 (with Henry being poisoned by the Templars during a military campaign), leaving the French throne in the hands of Henry's infant son, also named Henry. John of Bedford became the regent, with his base of operations in Rouen, Normandy. Following this, John effectively ruled over Northern France under a Templar Regime.
The Start of the Game
By 1428, the now 18-year-old Gabriel de Carniellon has finished his training to become an Assassin while residing in Chinon, and his first task is to apprehend an English convoy of supplies and reinforcements for the Siege of Orleans. The raid is successful, and as he returns to Chinon, he comes to befriend one of the prisoners taken during the raid, an 18-year-old Templar woman named Eleanor, who possessed the gift of an Assassin.
Together, Gabriel and Eleanor, with the help of figures like Charles VII and Jeanne d'Arc, will change the tide of the battle against England in the Hundred Years' War, and once again drive off the Templars from France and restore the Assassins to their former glory.
This is just an idea for an Assassin's Creed game set during the final years of the Hundred Years' War, and it could see a return to the old elements of the franchise, away from the newer RPG elements found in Odyssey and Valhalla, but similar to games like Origins, Unity, and Syndicate. The game could possibily be called "Assassin's Creed Lineage," and it would take place in the Lancastrian Phase of the Hundred Years' War, primarily between 1428 and 1453, with the game's prologue starting at the Siege of Paris in 1418.
As for the protagonists, they would collectively be Gabriel and Eleanor (similar to AC Syndicate), as Gabriel would seek vengeance for his father's death and liberate Northern France from Templar rule, while Eleanor comes to realize that she was fighting for the wrong cause when she joined the Templar Order and would join the French cause.
The game could see a return to Unity's parkour system (especially with dense cities like Rouen, Paris, and Orleans), but adopt similar combat moves like in Valhalla or Assassin's Creed III. The game would be centered around the cities of Paris, Rouen, and Orleans, with brief missions in Dijon and Reims, while the game concludes at the Battle of Castillon (the battle that effectively ended the Hundred Years' War).
I hope you enjoyed reading this exploration into a potential Hundred Years' War setting.
Victoire aux Assassins!
submitted by AncientConqueror to assassinscreed


DMC5 SE quotes comparison, English and Japanese

DMC5 SE quotes comparison, English and Japanese
I compiled the quotes said by Vergil at the start of missions 19 and 20 as well as the lines spoken by Dante that can be heard when you get defeated and you’re given the options for revival or give up. Some of these, especially the ones from the Japanese dub, I was able to get with some help from Japanese players whom I asked if they could write them for me because I couldn’t catch all the spoken words and of course the spoken lines differ from the subtitles...
The other comparisons will be for the ending scene, and you’re gonna see quite a particular strange line that was difficult to understand, so I’m curious to hear your opinions about it.
Lastly, there’s also the message you get if you beat Urizen in the prologue.I took note that each version had very different ideas in some places, and when this happens, you just don’t know what was the initial idea that was meant to be conveyed, especially when there are some who can understand both languages.That’s how I see it, I hope to hear your opinions after reading the comparisons.
ENG: Farewell, Dante.
JPN: さらばだ、ダンテ
In Japanese, Vergil says “saraba” which is an old fashioned way of saying goodbye, it sounds more archaic than sayōnara.
One thing that I wanna note here, with the scenario we are given in this edition, it kinda sounds as if Vergil was intending to kill Dante...What do you think?
ENG: All things end, Dante. Even us...
JPN: 終わらせようダンテ...全てをな
Well, the nuances are different, in the English version it puts emphasis on the twins with the idea that they will eventually die and their fight there will bring the end of them (in my opinion, I thought at first that Vergil is implying by saying ‘farewell’ that he is certain that he will kill Dante, thus bidding farewell to him because Dante would no longer be around, but I also thought of the possibility that Vergil could have said in the eventuality that he might actually die in the fight or if they both kill each other.
In the Japanese version Vergil says:“Let’s finish (end) this, Dante...All of it”
Here it conveys the idea of resolving their conflict, to settle their matter.
Vergil always said “ to defeat” Dante, but I don’t think that meant killing him.One could argue that Dante might have been the one with murderous intent because of what he said in 3 to Vergil:“Even if it means killing you”, but I do not think he meant it, much like how even Vergil I think he intentionally missed and did not strike Dante at the time, I think none of them wanted to kill the other.
Heck, the one time one brother “killed” the other was with Dante and Nelo Angelo, the former not knowing it was Vergil.
They didn’t fight to the death in 3, it was always “to defeat”, even now in 5, it was always “to defeat”.There is a detail I remember since we are on the subject, after the fight against Urizen’s in M17, we have Nero talking and he said:
“They're brothers? Why are they fighting each other?”
The reason why I bolded that word is because the Japanese dub (and same thing is written in the subs), he didn’t simply say fighting, he said “killing each other”
My assumption is that the choice of words, instead of also having him simply say “fighting” but instead saying something with a heavier connotation, was that it’s how Nero viewed their fighting, but you gotta keep in mind that he doesn't know the history between the brothers.
All this wanting to kill each other is just contradicted in the ending by how happy the brothers were shown in the Demon World, hello, have you seen Vergil smiling, with teeth?The man who said “We’ve got plenty of time”, to his little bro that apparently he wanted to kill....?
Gosh, why is the scenario in the special edition so weird in places?...
Had the Japanese version implied the idea in the English version, it should have been phrased in another way...
Moving on, before we go to the epilogue, here are the quotes said at the revival screen, though they don’t have great differences in meaning. (note, for the English ones I wrote them as I heard them, I watched a video where they didn’t appear written in the subs like I found for Japanese, so I hope I didn’t get them wrong)
Dante:ENG: “Aw c’mon! The fun is just getting started!”
JPN: マジか...?もっと踊ろうぜ!TL: “Really...? C’mon, let’s dance some more!”
ENG: “Is that really all you've got? Oho, little Vergil's got a boo boo."
JPN: おしまいかい?泣き虫~「バージルちゃん」よぉTL: “Is that all you got/ Giving up? Crybaby Vergil! (he added -chan there XD)
(I am not sure for which one exactly he says something a little bit different in the JPN dub because I watched a video and I could only hear a little of the beginning of the sentence while the rest would fade out…)
Okay, let's move on to the epilogue!
Dante:ENG: “Wow, this thing got real big…
You tryin' to compensate for something?
JPN (dub):よく育てたもんだが、デカけりゃいいってもんでもねえぞ.
TL: “This thing grew really big, but y’know, bigger isn’t always better”
JPN (sub): やけにデかく育てたな。ガーデニングが趣味なのか 。
TL: “This thing grew extremely big. Are you into gardening? (Is gardening your hobby?)
Okay, so, uhm now that I got to hear the Japanese dub and the what it says in the subs for the respective language differs, not sure if implies what the English line wants to imply, because honestly, based on what I observed in past games, the lines in the localization had on quite a few occasions innuendo to them than the Japanese ones, lines which in the latter were very simple statements.
(honestly if that was meant to make a reference to that line said in the Reboot in any way...please don’t Capcom. Keep it separate from the OG series. This is my humble opinion)Again it looks like there are two separate scripts with different meaning in the Japanese version, it’s as if they couldn’t fit it into the dub, so the subs are additional information? That’s what it looks like...Makes ya wonder, if there was the idea in the subs, the localization thought it was too lame to make the gardening remark?
VergilENG: “Yes. Your incompetence”
JPN (dub): 役立たずよりマシだ。TL: “It’s better than being useless.”
JPN (sub): いいから黙ってろ。TL: “Shut up already/That’s enough.”
One thing that I wanna mention first of all is the difference in how this line was delivered in the Japanese dub. If you will go and listen to it, you will remark that Vergil has a lighter tone when he says this line, unlike in the English version where he sounds a bit aggressive and suggests that he is angry because of Dante’s incompetence, which doesn’t seem to suggest anything like that in the Japanese version, if it had been directed at Dante, there should have been a “you” spoken there (omae or kisama, one of these).
Now, on the matter of what Vergil is talking about, I wasn’t sure either what he was saying at first, but I went through some comments in Japanese from a few gameplay videos to see if I could find a hint, and there was one that I saw which mentioned that he might have been possibly making a reference to Temen-Ni-Gru, which was another huge thing that he brought up in the past, and if we think about it, in comparison with the Qliphoth, the latter proved to be actually more useful because at least it supplied him with power, wouldn’t you say?
Dante:ENG: “By the way, how'd it feel catching up with your kid?
JPN (dub):それで?わが子と会ったご感想は?
TL: “So? What did you think when you met your kid?
(How did you feel when you met your kid?)
JPN (sub): それで?息子に会ったご感想は?
TL: same, here it says “son”, instead of “kid”
Uhmm...yeah, Vergil (during the time he spent as V) didn’t exactly “catch up” with Nero, when he believed that Nero was most likely Dante’s child and only was told that he was his son after Dante told him after their fight. I don’t think the fight between Vergil and Nero qualified much as “catching up” either, if we go by the first scenario of the story.
I consider the choice of words here to be strange...
ENG: “There's no need for us to "catch up"”
JPN (dub): 話すべきことなど何もない。TL: “There is nothing to talk about .”
JPN (sub): 何の感慨もない。TL: “I don’t have any deep emotions.” (I don’t have any feelings/I don’t feel anything about it.
Not much to say here other than Vergil clearly wanted to avoid the subject for the time being, dude just found out that he was the father of Nero, not Dante as he believed, he needs time to process the matter.Dante also telling him in the next line that he is gonna be a grandpa soon is not exactly helping either, when the man barely has yet to come to terms that he is a father.
Dante:ENG: “Well, with an attitude like that, you're never gonna meet your grandkids.”
JPN (dub):マジか?もうすぐ孫まで生まれるんだぞ?お前
TL: “For real?/ You’re serious?/ You’re even gonna have a grandkid born soon.
(note: can be one or more grandkids, it can’t be determined if it might be singular or plural)
JPN (sub): もうすぐ孫までできるってのに
TL: same meaning
Soo, yeah, for those who thought that maybe Dante was actually talking about the kids Nero and Kyrie adopted, Julio, Kyle, and Carlo, it’s clearly not about them because Dante specifically said “grandkid(s) soon to be born”.
Personally, the English phrasing sounds either like, Nero has kids already, (in which case, the Japanese version would have used the verb "to meet" 会う, matching with the English word) or it can be interpreted that Kyrie is currently pregnant and the child(ren) will soon be born, so it's a bit vague, whereas Japanese version said much more clearly with "to be born (生まれる) and in the spoken line there's something which emphasizes the content of the phrase, an explanatory nuance.
In both the dub and subs there is もうすぐ which means "soon", "before long", "almost", so, I'd say this implies that Kyrie is pregnant and she will give birth.It should have been phrased differently to imply something like “What will you do if you’re gonna have grandkids someday?” or “What will ya do when your kid is gonna have kids of his own?”
Like I said before, this was way too soon to tell Vergil…
One thing I find out that I saw in other discussions is that just because Nero is gonna have kids, they would be the protagonist of the next game...but, would the next game be a 20 year time skip? I’m saying this because, well, his kid(s)should be teens/young adults, much like the twins were in 3 and Nero in 4, right?
ENG: “That's enough. I don't want to hear it. Now, don't get in my way.”
JPN (dub): 黙れと言ったはずだぞ。いいか、足を引っ張るなよ
TL: “I thought I told you to shut up/be quiet .
Listen up, don’t stand in my way, you hear?”(the last part in the English line is good)
JPN (sub): 黙れ 何度も言わせるな。いいか、足を引っ張るなよTL: “Silence! Don’t make me say it again. Now, don't get in my way.
ENG: “Took the words right out of my mouth...!”
JPN (dub):そのセリフそっくり返すって。
TL: “Right back at you!”
JPN (sub): こっちのセリフだよ。
TL: “That’s my line!”

Now we reached this part, where I read the most baffling line which I couldn’t not understand what it meant, only vaguely, because looking at what it says in Japanese and English, I couldn’t see much much in common with the last line, they seemed to be different like apples and oranges (pun intended xD), because when I read the subtitles, it actually mentions the word apple(s).
やがてお互いの林檎をも奪い合うThe first line is translated well, another way to say it would be :
“The brothers joined hands in order to take down the tree”, but the second line…
To get an idea of what it could mean, I spent a couple of days waiting for replies from Japanese fans because I really thought that maybe it’s some sort of idiom that me, a gaijin doesn’t understand, so I totally had to reach out to the Japanese speaking fandom for this particular line so I could also get a better understanding of it .
I only had a vague idea because, well, to start of with the line would roughly translate as:“And before long, they began fighting over the apple(s) of the other”
Sounds a bit weird, doesn’t it?The first thing I thought about was of course the one “apple” of the story, which was the Qliphoth fruit, but I couldn’t make a connection since after all, there was only one of it and was eaten by Urizen.
Another thing I thought about was if it perhaps a connection with Blake’s “A Poison Tree”, because, when I saw that quote I noticed how it started with a couple of the same words used here

やがて輝く林檎の実を付けた (Till it bore an apple bright), looking at this one and the line mentioned earlier やがてお互いの林檎をも奪い合う I thought there was perhaps a connection through these lines only because I remarked some words being the same.
I read analyses for A Poison Tree but I still couldn’t not figure out what that line wanted to convey.
I tried to think why the word apple(s) was used and this imagery of the brothers fighting over them, apparently each of them having one or maybe.
For this reason, I tried to get the opinion of a few Japanese fans and reading their replies,
I somehow could get a better picture, but I still believe that in localization, it feels like it wasn’t conveyed well. It’s quite the issue when one can understand from both sides (the languages) and notices these differences and sucks when one side will get different information compared to the other…Anywho, so after getting a few opinions, one thing that I saw and also had a similar interpretation for was that the image of the “apple”, represents, if we consider that the apple in the game’s story was the Qliphoth fruit, which was a symbol of power, right?
So, okay I tried to replace in the sentence the word apple with power and I would have gotten the image that the brothers were fighting ovecompeting/vying for the other’s power.
This is an interpretation from someone I asked about: if we consider that Urizen ate the fruit (a source of power), which of course became part of Vergil, it can be said about Dante that he also received power from the Qliphoth which supplied him during the time he was in a coma.
Like I mentioned before, I tried replacing the word apple with power, so that made me think that, if the brothers wanted to take power from the other, to take someone’s strength would mean to weaken, right? If you overpower someone, you have the upperhand and you can defeat the one you confront and prove who was better, which is something that Vergil and Dante kept doing. We've seen how they try to one-up each other, isn’t that so?
Another interpretation I read, but I don’t quite agree with it much, because it’s contradictory, though I will mention it nonetheless, was that the “apple”/Qliphoth fruit represented a heart, and if you replace with that, if they would try to get the heart of the other, it would mean taking the other’s life. The person on who wrote this interpretation said that because the fruit was made from human blood, from their lifeforce, it would mean the fruit was made from lives of people, thus they interpreted that perhaps the brothers wanted to take the life from the other, i.e killing each other, but again I mentioned this earlier, it’s contradictory because, do they seem like they wanted to murder each other?
Now, the other interpretation I read which made me imagine something and it relates to what I mentioned earlier, about how they always wanted to one-up each other.Someone wrote that the “apple” could be a metaphor for victory/win.
Well, they were fighting and keeping score of their fights between them, arguing about it even while fighting demons in the credit scene.
Others have remarked that the only thing that is important in the sentence is the fact that they are trying to take something from one other, which in this case “apples” that who knows what is supposed to mean), something which they have done since they were kids.
Honestly, this line was quite difficult to interpret, but I guess I will go with the idea that if “apple” (which we take it as being the Qliphoth fruit)= ”power” or “victory”, the more one of them has of that respective thing, determines who’s the strongest.
I probably haven’t made much sense, huh? If I didn’t ask some people, I probably wouldn’t have had no idea what to write about it. Let me know what you think!
Moving on to the next part!
ENG: “That's it. Time to die!.”
JPN (dub): これで終わりだ!
TL: “It’s over!(“This is the end!”)
JPN (sub): そろそろ死ね!
TL: “Time to die!”
ENG: “You're like an open book... I can read your every move. Too easy!!”
JPN (dub):そう来るだろうと思ってたよ。どうだった?(I think I might have misheard the last bit, I just couldn’t make out clearly…TL: “I figured that’s what you would do !How’d ya like that?”
JPN (sub): お前の考えなんぞお見通しだ。楽勝だぜ
TL: “I can see right through you/I can tell what you’re thinking!Too easy!”
Gotta say that I like the choice of words in the English line with “open book” :D

ENG: “Score one for Dante! I'm up one.”
JPN (dub):おっとダンテ選手1点リード!JPN (sub): ダンテ選手1点リード!
TL: This one is alright, another way to translate it would be “Dante is in the lead with 1 point!”, Dante is calling himself player, sounding as if he is a sports commentator xD
ENG: “Where did you learn to count!? We're even!”
JPN (dub): 数え直せ同点だ!
TL: “Redo the counting! We’re even!
JPN (sub): 算数からやり直せ同点だ!
TL: “Redo the math! We’re even!
While they are pretty much the same, from the subs I can also interpret that Vergil is telling Dante to fix his math skills, so here it might have a hint of insult, saying he sucks at math xD
Before the next part of the epilogue scene, I also wrote the lines they say in the credits, but only what was written in the subs, for the JPN dub, I couldn’t find a video where I could hear them clearly to remark if something differs from the subs, I couldn’t make out what they say because of the fighting…
ENG: “C'mon! You know I was always better... with numbers!”
JPN: 俺の方が上 だったろ 算数の成績は
TL: “My math scores were better, y’know!/ I performed better at math!
So, going with these and without what he says in the JPN dub, Dante is good at math?XD
That’s interesting! Vergil being better at literature and Dante with numbers.
I wonder if it’s the same meaning in the JPN dub, because there might be the possibility he could be referencing the “scores” of their fights, but like I mentioned, I couldn’t find a video with these lines being heard clearly...
ENG: “What?? You were never better... at anything!.”
JPN:バカめ 俺の方が上だった ...全てな
TL: “You’re a fool! I was better...at everything!
“Hmph, as if there was any doubt. Admit it, Dante, I'm just better than you.”
JPN: 当然の結果だな。 認めろダンテ俺の方が上だと。
The English line is good here!
ENG: “Don't you dare say it--!.”
JPN (dub): ”アレ”だけは言うなよ!
JPN (sub): ”アレ”は言うなよ!
In the JPN dub it’s more like “anything but that!”
ENG: “Jackpot!
Why you gotta leave me hangin'!? We used to love saying that.”
JPN (dub and sub): ノリが悪いな。昔は一緒に言ってたろ
TL: Another alternative would be “You’re such a killjoy! We used to say it together, ain’t that right?”
ENG: “I have no recollection.”
JPN (dub): ”そんな記憶はないな。
JPN (sub): ”記憶にないな。
Not a big difference, in the dub he said that he didn’t have such memory. Sure, Vergil xD
ENG: “Well lemme jog your memory. A little Vergil... crying in the corner because mommy got mad?”
JPN (dub):じゃ、思い出させてやるよ。
TL: “Well then, lemme remind ya, crybaby Vergil! Whimpering because mom got angry at him! (note, he calls him crybaby Vergil-chan xD)
JPN (sub): これは覚えてるか?ガキの頃…お母さんに怒られて泣きべそかいてたろ?
TL: “Well, do you remember this? When you were little... how you would be whimpering when mom got angry at you?”
So, I gotta mention something because I have been specific. Before this, just wanna say that at first when I heard the JPN dub, I misheard this line until I had someone write it to me, and it was apparently close to the subs, but, due to my mishearing I actually came up with something different that could have been legit xDSome of the words I heard made me believe that in the dub, Dante said that the reason why Eva was angry at Vergil was because he broke her vase, which would have been a nice detail, but alas, this wasn’t the case xD
Now, moving on to explain why I was specific with some words. I also wanna mention that the Japanese version didn’t have the detail, the image that Vergil was crying “in a corner”, which I have seen a few quoting this and not leaving out the “being in a corner” part. That seems to have been the interpretation of who localized the line...The Japanese version is vague, it only states that he would be whimpering/crying and that’s it, which brings me to another thing about the choice of words in both dub and sub, Dante doesn’t simply say the verb “to cry” 「泣く」 in both spoken and written versions in Japanese it says
泣きべそをかく which in the dictionary has quite the specific description and I guess there must be a reason behind it, I mean why couldn’t they just leave it simply “to cry”?The Japanese dictionaries I use say that 泣きべそをかく describe that it means “close to tears/close to crying, “the look on someone’s face as if they are about to cry (such as children who are getting scolded).
I guess from the description in the Japanese version, it gives the image that little Vergil didn’t exactly just burst into tears and sob loudly like a little baby, at least least maybe not in front of others, I guess in this way we can imagine that maybe he would go somewhere to avoid his mother, Dante and his dad (if this memory is from when Sparda was still around, who knows if Dante was recalling that from the time Sparda was at home or not ), until he would stop crying.
ENG: “I seem to recall YOU crying every time father raised his voice.”
JPN (dub): ”俺の記憶ではお前は親父に泣かされてた
TL: “In my memories, father made you cry.”
JPN (sub): お前こそ親父に怒られて泣いてた
TL: “You would also cry when father got angry at you.”
ENG: “Hah! How would they feel if they saw us now?”
JPN (dub):今の俺たちを二人はどう思うかね。
The line in English is good.
JPN (sub): 2人にゃ見せられねえ姿だ。
TL: ”We wouldn’t be able to show our faces to them”
In the subs, while not actually saying “to show our faces” I guess it’s the closest way I can convey it, it implies that with their current form/image, how they are now, it’s something that perhaps their parents wouldn’t be so happy about to see. The dub is straight-forward…
ENG: “What does it matter? We're still here aren't we?.”
JPN (dub): そんなことは死んだ後で考えろ!
TL: “Think about that after we are dead!”
JPN (sub): どうでもいい俺たちはまだ生きてる
TL: “It doesn’t matteWhat does it matter?/
We are still living (alive) aren't we?”
ENG: “Yeah, you're probably right.”
JPN (dub and sub):確かにそうだな。
TL: the line is good. Alternative: “Yeah, you’re right about that”
I gotta say that I love the line how it is in English and how it matches with the Japanese subtitles, I don’t know why it couldn’t stay the same in the JPN dub, because if it was a matter of lip syncing, the amount of time there was close up on Vergil’s face before he turned away for the second half of the quote, he could have said the same words like in the subtitles.
Just what are you doing with the scripts, Capcom?! *sigh*
Anywho, I want to mention, now that we went over this line from VERGIL, just like I talked about in the beginning, giving the example the ending from the first edition how it contradicts the idea that they wanted to kill each other, when we saw the brothers happy in the Demon World, arguing about their scores and smiling, and even now here in this scene, VERGIL is the one saying “WE ARE STILL ALIVE”, despite the fact that given the very first quotes that I compared, seemed to give the impression that he intended on killing Dante.
And now, the last thing to compare is the message you get when you beat Urizen in the prologue and the differences are quite big, it’s like only half of the ideas were kept …

I like the line in English for which I can give credit to the writers for sounding poetic and that it least conveyed a part of the idea from Japanese, the fact that the “usurper” was slain.(also 反逆者 can mean “rebel” or “traitor but I will also use usurper because the definition fits Urizen better).
Now, let’s look at what information the Japanese lines provide.
TL: “Insignificant, the usurper of the Demon World. No match for your true power.”
There are several ways for this to be translated, essentially it conveys that someone, such as the likes of the Demon World’s usurper is of little importance, trivial, small fry even.
That’s quite the bold statement, huh? This nuance isn’t in the English version.Moving on to the next one

**この程度で奴に勝ったとは言えないのだ。**TL” “If that was all there was to it, you can’t really say that you won against him”Different meanings, right?
And the final one...

TL: “Come on/Now, thrust your blade forward!
Strike with everything that your newfound power holds!(or “the entirety of your new power)
Now that we have compared these lines, in Japanese it had to be more specific to convey the idea of “we”, so, I wonder why couldn’t they leave it with “you”, being more clearly that it refers to us the players. Why are the ideas so different?Let me tell you that I read a bunch of comments on gameplays from Japanese fans and they also questioned these many lines, saying how they are very different.
Why is Capcom giving each side other kinds of information…?Which ideas are we supposed to take into consideration when the English speaking fandom and the Japanese fandom get other things?
This is troublesome, especially for someone who can understand both languages, that’s why, personally speaking, I regard some things in the series differently because I can see other nuances and ideas in the original language and question some of the choices in that are made, like, from what I understand, the Japanese dub is made based on the lip sync of the English lines, because of the fact that the mocap is done by actors that can’t speak English, except for Reuben Landon, right?
What about the first game though? I don’t think that involved mocap, right?
So it could have been made from the start with Japanese dub and then have it dubbed in English for the Western audience. Even the first two Resident Evil games on the PS1 had only English audio apparently, getting Japanese dub in the remaster. Why was that? For those games you didn’t see their mouths moving...
I get that, according to an interview, the Japanese dub is made to match the English lip sync, the subtitles in Japanese are meant to present the info at once in a concise manner when they appear on screen so that we can understand the context and that apparently that’s why the JPN subtitles are most of the time not word by word written (unlike the English ones), because there are other scripts made, which I don’t get what goes on with them, cause it looks like the liberties from English writers might influence (I assume it happens often but weren’t always good decisions) in the Japanese writing (that’s why I’m questioning if they are catering for the English audience). Itsuno said that they are being particular about the jpn subs, because they serve to provide info in the way I mentioned earlier.It’s still curious as to why the Japanese subs are not word for word of the spoken words like in English, why not use the script the voice actors have used, the one they made based on the English lip sync.
Instead, a lot of times the Japanese subtitles are phrased differently, because I think they could not convey some of the ideas they wanted in the dub, and if we were to assume it’s because it was influence from the English side saying what they consider it sounded better, the Japanese side still wanted to convey some of the intentions they had, but that would be something which would be known for the Japanese audience or if you are lucky to understand the language.I mentioned how I assume that maybe things are catered to the English side and I wonder if it was a case with the infamous “My son means nothing to me!” line, was it mistranslation, which makes you wonder how they let that be like that because that was something major, or was it altered to make Vergil sound cold?
Even if they intended that with the latter, it was contradictory because in his next line Vergil said “Nero is my son?”*sigh* Well, I guess I said enough, a bunch of times I had to say “DMC team of writers, what are you doing with the scripts?”If you have questions, like if you think I didn’t explain very well, let me know! I’m looking forward to hearing your opinions!
Thank you for making it this far :)
submitted by cloudi_skye to DevilMayCry